PODCAST 041: Six Lessons Learned from 2019's THE CHURCH DIGITAL PODCAST

2019 has come and gone, and with it, 40 podcasts recorded on the many different facets of Church Online. Each podcast offering many lessons and insights into how to utilize Church Online more effectively for your church.

With so many lessons, Rey and Jeff figured this was a great chance to review the year and pick out our highlights!

Did you miss some of these podcasts? Go back and catch some of these lessons to better prepare you for 2020 .

If you're enjoying this episode, subscribe for free using your favorite podcast app below:

Apple Podcasts | RSS Feed | Anchor | Overcast |  Spotify | Pocket Casts  | Google Play

Host: Jeff Reed
THECHURCH.DIGITAL
Twitter   //   Facebook   //   Instagram   //   LinkedIn

Co-Host: Rey DeArmas
Christ Fellowship Miami Online
Twitter  //  Facebook  //  Instagram

By leaving a positive ranking and review of THECHURCH.DIGITAL PODCAST on iTunes

Head over to that   Ratings & Review   section on iTunes

Jeff Reed: 00:00 Hey everybody. Welcome to The Church Digital Podcast. My name is Jeff and it is a pleasure to have you join us today. We are on Episode 41 of The Church Digital Podcast. This is the last episode of 2019 and I'm glad y'all have joined us today. I've got Rey DeArmas, of course, guest host, joining us. Hey Rey, want to say, Hey?

Rey DeArmas: 00:18 Hey everybody, it's good to be with you again. Happy end of 2019, onto the next decade. Let's go.

Jeff Reed: 00:24 Yeah, so hope Christmas was good and we wanted to wrap up 2019 in style here as we want to just reflect back. We've done 41 of these episodes and there was a gentleman's bet between Rey and I if we'd actually make it past eight. And so we're 41 in, I'm not going to tell you who won the bet, but actually I think it was Rey. It was Rey. It was not me at all, but we have done 41 of these and just Rey and I were having a conversation. Just all these lessons that we've learned through these conversations. Because Rey and I, when we started this podcast and doing this, we didn't know what we didn't know and it was fascinating to listen to all of these different people with all of these different perspectives. Talk about what church online is and how they are executing their piece of church online, maybe at the churches or with the companies where they are at. And so Rey and I just came with this idea of, Hey, let's do a podcast where we talk about six lessons that we've learned. Three from each of us from this podcast in 2019 so going back, Hey, if you're like a sit com guy, this is the highlight reel. We're going to go back, we're going to visit some old content, we're going to talk about it and highlight it so you can get a chance maybe to go back and listen to these episodes as well. So Rey, you want to share anything on that?

Rey DeArmas: 01:42 No, this is perfect. And you know, for those of you jumping in, we're going to refer to past episodes that you'll be able to take a look at the show notes and just check out the links if you want more information about that. And let me tell you, I learned so much this past year because until Jeff and I really started doing this, I mean we knew that people were doing things out there and they were trying things. But when you start to hear from different voices from people all over the United States, even some all over the world, and just kind of engaging with them and finding out how they're using digital methods to disciple people, I mean it's just amazing. It's powerful. And so let me encourage you, go ahead and pour back through some of those old episodes. Get engaged with it. You know, right now some of you are probably on the drive and so it's a good time to just binge listen to like a bunch of episodes. Go ahead and do it because you'll be surprised at some of the things that you'll learn, some of the gold that you might find for your church and how to disciple people online. It's good stuff.

Jeff Reed: 02:35 That's awesome. So we're going to kick it off. Number six. We're going to start from the bottom and work our way up. Rey, why don't you go first here. So what's one of the lessons that you learned listening or doing the interview, doing these podcasts in 2019?

Rey DeArmas: 02:49 Let me tell you, Jason Morris's Episode on the importance of a discipleship pathway for church online was so big because Jeff, you know, some churches are putting their sermons out there online, they're putting their messages out there. Some are streaming full-blown services. Some people are even dabbling in small groups, but not everybody is thinking step by step by step discipleship pathway in terms of how they're engaging their people online. And I'm telling you, this was like episode three or four for us. If you go back and listen to it, just hearing Jason's passion about discipleship, I mean, he's running the entire episode. I mean, he pretty much did all the content for us. It was amazing but just hearing his passion come out about helping people in their next step each and I mean going down to the minuscule small next steps in faith for people who are engaging online. That was just very powerful for me. And I wanna encourage people. Are you thinking through that? Because for sure Jason is.

Jeff Reed: 03:52 Yeah, I tell you, Jason, we commonly call him one of the OGs of church online, original gangsters, cause he's been doing it for a long time. He's one of these guys that's been doing church online for 10 plus years and has gotten a lot of respect in context of his church and how he's been leading. I, I think his title's unique. It's not Online Pastor. It's like it's Global Innovations Pastor. That's literally how this man approaches and has been able to approach digital and church online and technology through the church out there at Westside family. And so he was key on episode six. And you're right, he was 100% passion coming in and talking about all a lot of this stuff. And also on episode 32 where we talked about redefining the why of church online, which was tied into the church it network, phenomenal thing.

Jeff Reed: 04:45 And really Jason hones in on that discipleship pathway, which is so key for a church online to move beyond just broadcasting the services to really connecting to the larger piece of why are we doing this broadcast? Why are we doing this ministry online? Is it not just to create consumers? It really should be to create disciples. Matthew 28, and so I love Jason's passion in their work and a lot of that he really came down to, instead of designing this like massive, complicated system that may or may not work, disciple the people that you have, crack open the Bible and take them through it. It was really, I was expecting, I was the really the surprise for me and that was, I was expecting a much larger, this is, this is crazy planned that he would bring to the table Mr. Global Innovation Pastor.

Jeff Reed: 05:35 And instead it was really a very simple message of disciple the people that you have online and God will bring you more. And so Jason for that, thank you very much. That was an awesome lesson to go through. For me, and we'll call this number five. Eric Geiger and this is a man who's very special to both Rey and I. We had him on for a combo of Episodes 9 and 10. But really the heart of the conversation that we ended up talking about, we kind of veered off a little bit, which that's always where the fun is not when you stick to the script of what you want to, but when you really like get into the, into the beat of something. And so we really wanted to hone into, okay lead pastor who may or may not have some issues with church online and and definitely has maybe a different vision than some others.

Jeff Reed: 06:22 Like what is the issue with church online as a lead pastor, what are other issues? What are the issues that are out there that other lead pastors have? So help us understand cause cause honestly pre this conversation with Eric Geiger earlier this year, episode 9 and 10, I could not answer this question. Like when I would drill into, I don't understand why you don't see how church online could work. and Eric very simply and eloquently helped me understand, okay there is a a theological issue that some churches will have with church online. And there's a practical issue that some churches, some lead pastors will have with church online. Now the theological, you know, this is like ekklesia defining the coming together, the gathering of believers that is, in biblical times, that's divined within physical space. And of course, you know, they didn't have zoom in a biblical time.

Jeff Reed: 07:16 So I don't know that the Bible context really figured out how to define community virtually. And I think culturally community is being defined in a much different way in 2019 than it was, I don't know, you know, in the time of Christ or shortly after with the early church. And so, you know, wrestling with some of that and realizing, Hey, you know what, if your lead pastor really has a theological issue with church online, it's going to take a lot of effort, to shift that. And arguably, I don't know that you can. And so feeling that tension now I now a more, a more practical issue. Maybe the lead pastor doesn't understand how technology can help community come together. Maybe there's a misunderstanding or just the unawareness of how that can work and function. If it's a practical thing, that's a much easier conversation to have with a pastor than necessarily like a major, theological issue. Rey, what'd you pull from that?

Rey DeArmas: 08:22 You know, it's funny because just today I was having a conversation with somebody as far as where I considered my church community to be and what I told them was I didn't consider my church community and be there on Sunday morning. And this is actually somebody who's a part of my church at Christ Fellowship cause they were asking, cause obviously the church online pastor, they're like so how do you do church? And I was like I do church both online but I also do it in person. But I told them honestly my real community is in my small group. That's where my people are. And that kind of a shift from where our true community lies is something that church in general still struggles with. And I think that's a conversation that even Eric was comfortable with because in our large gatherings on Sunday mornings it's too overwhelming.

Rey DeArmas: 09:02 Even if you're in a church plant of like 50 to a hundred folks. For an introvert like me, that's still too many people to get to know really. And so I can't necessarily plug in and do life with people there or feel known, like truly known or feel truly mentored and discipled. And so, you know, helping pastors see that in online environments, yes there are large spaces that are overwhelming and where it could seem like people are disconnected. That's true in person and online as well. But there are also smaller environments that can take place through digital pathways in which people can be known, they can be seen, they can be heard and they can be discipled. And it was great hearing Eric just kind of engage with some of that from an honest perspective because so often many people would kind of shy away or some folks might come on a podcast and not necessarily want to engage with full on honesty with some of their, you know, with some of their issues regarding some of those digital pathways. But I felt like Eric was honest with us. He was very open minded, he was great. And I can really see Mariners experimenting with some of this stuff as they move forward. leveraging digital pathways to disciple people.

Jeff Reed: 10:06 Probably the thing that stood out for me in the conversation with Eric was this idea of consistency, making sure and helping your lead pastor maybe see some of where he is being inconsistent. Example would be, yeah, if you're doing multiple services then like on any given Sunday or even like a Saturday and a Sunday service, then this idea of ekklesia is loosely defined in biblical context. Ekklesia was the physical gathering in one place. When you go to a two service or when you go to a multisite model, and Jim Tomberlin talked about this with the podcast as well. It's like when you start to do multiple within the same gathering, you're actually stretching that model of, of what ekklesia already is and so if your pastor, I mean I just, I kind of bang my head against the wall sometimes. Honestly, when I talk to like a multisite pastor who's like, yeah, I don't, I don't believe in church online or I have an issue with church online and I'm like, you've got six campuses all over the city. You've, you've already shattered this idea of what biblical ekklesia is and you won't acknowledge that it can work in a virtual environment. It's no different than what you're doing in these other areas. And so that's where, you know, kind of coaching and helping them through it and Geiger helping to show some of that and even how to help communicate with the lead pastor through that, you know, was, was really key.

Rey DeArmas: 11:28 Absolutely. The next learning, part for me, which we'd consider number four would be our conversation with Danielle Hicks, regarding development of watch parties and even watching watch parties become campuses like in a case with Elevation Church and what they did with Melbourne. That was pretty amazing, mind blowing even. And the fact that they even have the discipline mind you to keep a lot of watch parties as that as watch parties. And we were talking about like over a hundred people gathering in coffee shops or yoga studios to engage with the service, but also to be part of small groups and real life church community. And I think this is a safe space to say this. You know, when a lot of folks look at Elevation, they think of just Steven Furtick or they think of just the worship team, but they're not necessarily looking at Elevation as actually striving to gather these people into groups and disciple them.

Rey DeArmas: 12:19 And that's what Danielle is really bringing to the table. I mean, on a huge scale. And it was so inspirational to see them have both the discipline because even in, you know, Southern Baptist churches or in different churches, as soon as they start hitting those numbers, they're thinking, Oh, let's launch another campus. It takes a lot of discipline to pull back and say, no, no, no. We need to continue to develop leaders to disciple more, to make sure that these people are actually in biblical community. And that's something that Danielle brought to the table. That was very, very inspiring for me.

Jeff Reed: 12:50 Yeah, I got to tell you, Dani's was one of my favorites of the year as well. And I, it was one of the first exposures that I had had to like the inside behind the scenes of of elevation church and it was not at all what I what I was expecting a lot of the humility that she showed in that and it was for me it was, it was, she was one of the first people that I heard say a phrase that I heard a lot afterwards. Hey guys, what we're doing right now, especially with like this micro location stuff, honestly we don't know what we're doing. We're experimenting with some things and what we're doing today we're probably not going to be doing in six months because we're just learning in this thing and to hear a big church, a giant church, one of the giga churches that are out there say, Hey, we don't know what we're doing.

Jeff Reed: 13:39 And kind of admitting that upfront to me that that gave me excitement for some of the smaller churches out there that are saying kind of the same things. Hey, we don't know what we're doing either, but just, okay, take that next step, experiment, try give it a shot. Get the tires on it, do something and so it was really, it was a great episode there with Danielle, Episode 21, so be sure to check that out. We'll have the link in the show notes for that as well. So for me, the next episode that I wanted to hit on for the lesson and talking about humility, this is by far the most humble lead pastor I've ever talked to in my life. And this is Randy Kirk, who's up at First Capitol Christian Church in Corydon, Indiana. This is Tyler Samson's church is the church anywhere program.

Jeff Reed: 14:26 We've talked about these guys a lot, but we actually did like a deep dive, a three episode, span, with, the people of Corydon, Indiana, First Capitol Christian where we talked with a lot of their volunteers, who are basically campus pastors doing the micro locations, being the pastors at these micro location services in Corydon, Indiana. We talked with their discipleship who's creating this discipleship pathway. But this episode with Randy was really where we delved into from a pastor level. So Randy's on the older side of life. Like I'm not saying the man literally resigned on the podcast, but if you listen to it, you will hear him literally resigned on the podcast and I gotta tell you it like that kind of blew me away a little bit. So here's an older guy who is part of a movement, part of a church leading a church who's launched 18 plus micro locations, amazing.

Jeff Reed: 15:30 And around the city, the church itself reaches about 1200 people within physical buildings. Last I heard, they're reaching 800 people outside of the physical building and micro locations around this small town in Corydon, Indiana. By the way, Corydon, Indiana it's about 3000 people. So like 1200 in the main building, 800 outside of the building. There's not a lot of overlap between like the physical and the micro to reach in at least half the town as a small church and as a lead pastor to see him have these conversations humbly, to making statements like, this isn't my kingdom. this is God. This is God's kingdom that he's given me. I have to listen to the young leaders. I have to listen. What a challenge for lead pastors, for executive pastors, for leadership teams that are out there, to not look at the church through just your own eyes, but to start to look at what can be and to start to empower some of these younger people like Tyler Samson who is doing a phenomenal job to step up and to bring in a new life and a new option opportunity to reach people in a unique way. What'd you think, Rey?

Rey DeArmas: 16:45 And you know what, Jeff? I mean so much of that was so powerful because I remember Tyler was super excited for us to talk to Randy and you don't often see that with the young guy, you know, older guy, kind of a scenario, like normal. He's trying to like stash them away. Like, Aw man, he's kinda not for this. But Randy is proof that age ain't nothing but a number. Let me tell you his missional mindset and his willingness to get out there and to try these digital pathways and to be so kingdom minded, Jeff, you're so right to be so kingdom minded to say men, they'd never set foot in the door of our building. But if they're being reached for Christ outside the room and we will have done our job is just so amazing and impactful. And I would pray that when we get to that stage of life that we have the same bold guts to keep trying new things and willingness to do so.

Rey DeArmas: 17:30 But at the same time, the same kingdom mindedness to one, throw the keys to younger leaders like Tyler. A guy like Tyler could go anywhere, but he's following Randy and you could see why just from that interview. I mean it's just an amazing kind of thing where Randy's empowering and he's saying, no, go take it. Like continue to push the ball forward for kingdom practices and kingdom methods man. And just a phenomenal thing that they've got going on over there. And so for sure, go back, take a listen. It's impactful. It'll change your perspective as far as, Oh man, folks who are older in your church, whether or not there'll be pro church online. Listen, we've seen it over and over again in the podcast and we've even seen it over and over again in real life. Folks who are entering a, what I consider this new era of being a grandparent, they're not afraid of technology. They're not afraid of tech. I mean, you can go listen to the episode where we interviewed Jeff's mom. You've heard me talk about my, about my father and how he's interacting with tech like often on the show in terms of his engagement with YouTube and all sorts of stuff. Let me tell you folks, Randy is a prime example. The age is nothing but a number and we have a lot of people in our churches that want to reach people and they want to do it online. So it's a powerful thing that's going on.

Jeff Reed: 18:39 I mean, I wanna I want to take a note since you brought it up, I publicly apologize to my mother for not including her in this list. Linda, you probably are listening cause I think you keep up, I'm sorry. You're, number seven, of the six. So just consider, okay. You're number eight because the seventh lesson is really Jay Kranda does not have a Disney plus account or at least it took him a month plus to get there. J publicly, once again, calling you out. You're listening. I know. Thank you. All right, mom, sorry. Jay, sorry. Let's go.

Rey DeArmas: 19:10 And Linda, you're our best small group leader at Christ Fellowship. That being said, so, the, our number two was Jate Earhart. And let me tell you, I've been a gamer ever since I was a kid. I did not realize that people were using gaming platforms to reach other people for Jesus. That for me was, it was a game changer. Okay. I thought that Jeff and I, that we were doing some innovative stuff, that we were doing some cool stuff with church online when Jeff worked at Christ fellowship. And we would do, and we don't get me wrong, we were doing some cool stuff, but what Jate was doing to reach people leveraging gaming platforms and even the fact that he is actually discipling people, leveraging gaming platforms and using Discord in order to do so for me was just one of the most mind blowing and innovative things.

Rey DeArmas: 19:53 I mean, I think I talked to everybody I knew for the next two weeks about what Jate was doing with Discord and the fact that he was leveraging gaming platforms to disciple people online and stuff about leveraging discord as a lobby area for church online for me was so impactful because yeah, you know, we can gain and we can talk and we can kind of have some fun. But the fact that he was trying to get to that next level of relationship and that next step with people and helping engage them and helping pull them in for as an evangelistic method, that was so powerful for me because even, you know, churches struggle in person leveraging their lobby area in church in terms of connecting with people. I mean, you know, church world, you guys know this. We do conferences based on how to get that connection card or that next step card from people. We do all sorts of things just to get that contact or how to greet people, how to get that next step and hear Jate's doing it inside a chat room, a gaming chat room to leverage and to reach people. I mean it's powerful how he's using gaming platforms to disciple people for Christ. Jeff, how were you impacted by Jate? Cause for me it was big.

Jeff Reed: 21:02 Yeah. Jate's been a guy that I followed up on and we're going to have him on the podcast, in January cause I want to unpack this one thing that, that he's working on. He's literally going through a church planting program right now. So his church that he's at, they do a lot with Exponential Conference and so they have a church, a cohort, a church planting cohort where they take physical churches through it. Jate's going through it because he and his core team through this, love clan group that meets on on discord. They've been fled to create a digital church. They don't want to just be a discipleship group that's doing something, but they're trying to, gird up their theological selves so that they can be operate by the standards of, of what a church, a biblical church is. Now some of you out there, your head's just exploded at this idea of, wait, what's a digital church?

Jeff Reed: 22:00 He's going to do what in discord? And we've had conversations with, with like DJ Soto, with VR church. We've talked a lot about this idea of creating a digital expression of church in a virtual space that aligns with the biblical standards that are held. And Jate in his twenties has set himself out and said, Hey, I want to go through this training to understand wholly and completely what a physical church is because I want to adopt it and adjust it to work in a virtual context. And so him being, being wise that way too, to even examine himself so that he himself is grounded theologically able to lead a church at that level. Man, is really exciting to me. And it's one of the things that I just, I love what this kid's doing. I'd say doing that, but it's good. It's like 20 years younger than me. So I love what this kid's doing and want to see him continue to do some great things.

Rey DeArmas: 22:50 Yeah. And I want to give a quick shout out to the Robloxian's cause that was another, you know, that was another thing that just kind of blew my mind that through the roblox that they're doing what they can to disciple people. And so it's just a beautiful thing. Folks are using gaming platforms to disciple people. I just, I can't, it's just amazing. Go back, check out these episodes. I'm telling you. Blow your mind.

Jeff Reed: 23:12 Yes. Jate's episode is number 13. And Daniel Aaron talking about. That's another one, man. We just hit that last week, Episode 40. But Daniel and how at 11 years old dude, this guy had this dream of like, Hey, and I'm not even doing like spiritual vision or anything. Like the guy's like, Hey, this is Roblox. This is a cool thing. What if we did church in here and like eight years later he's got a board of directors helping them structure a church. He's figuring out how to do discipleship in the area and he's touched 26,000 people through this church in, in Roblox. Like that's, that's no small feat and it's amazing to see how God is doing some things and some of these digital churches and some virtual spaces. Yeah, they need to get strengthened. Yeah. They need to get some sort of a discipleship process and structure in place, but don't stop.

Jeff Reed: 24:05 Let's adjust the model to keep it going. And I'll be honest for me, episode one, my favorite, Rey and I were talking off air before this thing and I just, I just started writing down, names. Like there's so many lessons, there's so many things that, that's like, man, I wish we could do this. A bunch of this, the stuff that we did, the Church IT Network kind of recording, the micro campus talk, which was awesome to start with. Why that was awesome. Jim Tomberlin dropping all this knowledge when it comes to the trends of multisite church over the past 20 years and how church online is starting from the cool thing to become the common thing, to become the mainstream thing and to see how that idea grew in the multisite world and how church online, not that far behind, maybe a decade behind that same process.

Jeff Reed: 24:51 Mark Venti with all the stuff they're doing at church home, a man, it's beautiful to hear him say, yes, we're, we're called to be a church and and regarding ourselves up theologically to make sure that we're holding to a biblical standard, but honestly, when it comes to like how we're progressing or how we're building, we're looking more to corporate America to help us figure out how to do the management in the church because the church is so far behind in some of these areas like it was. It's eyeopening to have some of these conversations, see leaders out there who are leading a lot of these big churches. Even even small churches with Joe Radosevich and trying to figure out how to take next steps for all these organizations to grow their church online. That being said, my favorite conversation and the one that I think had the, the most impact on me actually really had nothing to do with church online.

Jeff Reed: 25:43 And this was Seth Muse talking about from a communications perspective, how we communicate things digitally. Now Seth's the Communications Director, and in Dallas, Texas was at Hope Church for a while and does a lot of communicating and Seminary of Hard Knocks Podcast. A lot of you guys may know him or be connected with them there. But what we really honed in on is this idea of how we communicate things online and whether we're communicating about ourselves or if we're communicating in a way that's engaging and listening to what others are saying. You see in church online is, is very guilty of this. But the church in general is as guilty. We don't understand what engagement is. We've lost what that meaning is and so rule number one, talking about your upcoming sermon series on Facebook is not engaging.

Jeff Reed: 26:45 You are disseminating information about your church in hopes that others will hear you. Now, chances are you're people who are already connected to your church will listen to that information and that will be engaging to them and they may even respond to it, but if you're trying to connect with someone who's not familiar with your church, if you're trying to connect with someone who's outside of the general area that you see any given Sunday, maybe somebody who's cold to the idea even of Christ, that sermon series, just as an example, that sermon series post on Facebook ain't doing you jack, and what it's definitely not going to do is it's not going to get you engagement back where they are going to respond back and forth. See, engagement really comes not as much from talking as much as it is listening to the people and then responding and building online relational equity with people. That's where engagement should be? Rey, what are you thinking on that?

Rey DeArmas: 27:48 Yeah. You know, that's powerful Jeff, because so much of this with what we do with digital platforms should be built around conversations that we're having with our people. And to your point churches more often than not, you know, in our struggle to communicate things, we have so much of a struggle that we want to talk at people then necessarily talk with people. everything about our churches, even an in person experiences are built from a stage platform. Our sermons aren't engaging or worship isn't necessarily engaged. You know, we want them singing repeat after me kind of stuff. You know? And that's not necessarily helpful when it comes to online platforms. So when we approach online spaces, we shouldn't be surprised when even large mega churches have a struggle with, Hey, how come this only got like 10 likes? Or how come this only like 15 views when there is no method, when there is no reason for people to actually engage with the information, to actually have a conversation with what's going on.

Rey DeArmas: 28:41 And so for churches, you know, that's sets a content was so good because it reminds us that we have to be more conversation oriented in terms of how we approach people online. And so as we restructure our communications, as we look on into the future, make sure that even take a look at some stuff like some of the things that has helped us out. Maybe some of you have seen this Brady Shearer put out like a list of like 30 to 40 some odd questions that churches could just post up online and just start conversations with people. That's been a game changer at Christ Fellowship as far as our social media is concerned because we went from like having two comments to like all of a sudden starting a bunch of conversations on our Instagram and Facebook feeds. And it all starts with a question. Why? Because questions invite people to be part of the answer. We're not talking at them or talking with them and then whatever else happens after that question we're responsible for. If they want to keep engaging with us, we have to continue to engage with them.

Jeff Reed: 29:35 Remember this Billy Graham in the nineties, preach the message. That message was bounced off at 34 satellites and was heard by 1 billion people around the world. 1 billion people heard a single message simultaneously around the world, and that was in the 90s. And so if that's what you're using your church online for, dude, that was like 20, 30 years ago, there's gotta be something better than that. We're wasting the technology. If all we are doing is yelling our message out there and not listening, by the way, the culture of the 1990s compared to 2000 now 20 guess what? Completely different. You may be screaming from the rooftops, but ain't nobody listening. And if they do, by any chance, hear you, you're definitely not connecting with them going that approach. So utilizing the social media, utilizing technology, utilizing church online to be more engaging, to be more listening, to respond, these are the things to look at and you can definitely listen to that podcast. A lot of wisdom got dropped on that. It's Episode 28 there with Seth Muse and Redefining Engagement. So that has been awesome. Well man, Hey, like that flew. So we're six episodes in, six lessons with that. So, Rey, man, like what do you think is, just see what happens here, what do you think the future is gonna hold? What do you think 2020 is going to look like?

Rey DeArmas: 31:03 2020, you know, for The Church Digital, I think it's going to be great because in a lot of different ways on our site and through different methods, you guys are going to hear from a lot of different voices, you know, from us. And so I think that's going to be great, really the big thing, for church online and even for the way that churches interact with digital platforms, I'm so excited for how more and more pastors are taking an interest, you know, in the least. They're curious. And so I want to encourage you, if you're here and you either have a senior pastor who's curious or you are a senior pastor who's curious, or even you're a senior pastor or your pastor and you're on the fence, let me encourage you, stay curious, continue to, to delve into some of these things and think through it with an open mind and think through how you can engage people online.

Rey DeArmas: 31:48 Because I'm telling you the reward that's out there is greater than the risk. The risk is actually minimal at this point. It may seem large for you. It may seem, but what if people, what if we fail? What if people say X, Y, and Z? I'm telling you guys, this is small. This is almost as if you could have bought at and T or Apple stock in the 80s and you know, and you're going back in time in your door and you've got all the information because it's only gonna go up. So you have the ability to engage people online. It's never been cheaper. It's never been easier. And so today, just start exploring new platforms. Start thinking of new methods. And new ways that you can engage not just your people, but your community online and see how God will take it. Jeff, what about you, 2020 online, what do you think?

Jeff Reed: 32:29 Do not be afraid to experiment. Always get out there. Kick the tires on things and learn lessons. When experiments fail, that doesn't mean the idea entirely failed it means learn your lesson from that and try again there. There's a, there's a nugget here. There's an opportunity here. There's the road that we are on, online technology, church online technology is only going to get better. The culture engaging in community virtually is only going to get, more effective, more influential and the church needs to be in that space. Whether doing a physical church or a virtual church. Either way, get your, get in the game and get going. With Church Digital, we're going to open up a ton of different stuff. We've got more writers who are going to be creating content on a regular basis. We've got more video content and podcast ideas and things.

Jeff Reed: 33:28 2019 was a phenomenal year but it was just the beginning of something much greater. There's even some partnerships with some organizations that, if God is behind this and all this works out, there's going to be some phenomenal things coming forward for the big C church coming out of the church, digital Lord willing. And so to that end, man, continue to pray for this year. Pray for us as, as we are praying for you church out there, who is wrestling with this stuff. Who's asking questions, just kicking the tires, who's experimenting, who's asking questions of leadership that the leadership doesn't know the answer of. We understand you. We've been in your shoes and to that end, don't give up. Keep pressing, and start heading towards what 2020 is going to hold for you. Hey, so we're going to wrap right here, Rey, any closing thoughts as we're landing the plane.

Rey DeArmas: 34:18 Go back through some of those episodes. I'm telling you, take a binge, listen, have some fun, and kind of go back in time through 2019 with us and see just how God may inspire you to try something new in 2020

Jeff Reed: 34:29 Awesome. Hey, so we're going to land the plane on there. 2019 is in the rear view mirror, heads up 2020, it's going to be awesome. For Rey, I am Jeff at The Church Digital, and we're going to call it here. Thanks everybody. See ya next year. Awesome. Talk to you later. Bye.